community.kjrh.com

Way to go gunit.  Its all about being at the right place at the EXACT right time.  I was in the area at noon also on my way home at lunch.  I thought I could hear a hawk call a couple of times when I was close by the station, but could not see anyone.  Must have been looking the other way or in a different area looking when Jay was on the goldenrod. 
Around 12:20 I could see one circling off to the west, so headed towards the river.  I spotted Kay in a tree at 12:30 pm in Riverparks straight west of the nesting tower.  A group of geese were all around the base of the tree.  She preened a bit, I circled around the block and she was gone.
 
www.flickr.com/photos/cheryls_camera

1:33 pm Kay on the nest for a couple of minutes, stood on the bar then under the camera giving us a nice closeup of her sweet face.  :)

It's great to see all the activity here in the forum––the posts, the nest visits by our apparently well-fed Jay and Kay, and especially the reports and photos from out Tulsans.  It's clear Kay and Jay still consider the tower area their territory, which I think bodes well for next season.

I talked to Russell about the fate of the eggs, and he didn't rule out the possibility of retrieving them, but he said that a KJRH employee would have to climb the tower. With that in mind, here's what I just wrote to John Blakeman:

John,

Here's my latest question: Is there any argument to be made for removing the now-abandoned Tulsa eggs from the nest? Kay last sat on them on April 2,at about 5:25 PM. Jay continued to incubate them, although Kay would come into the nest fro time to time to send him away. After Jay left, Kay would hang around for a few miinutes but would then leave without sitting on the eggs.

Jay stayed on the eggs as much as possible, leaving to get something to eat, presumably, and spent two of the next three nights on the eggs. Finally, he left the eggs at 7:28 AM on Sunday the 5th.

At this point, I can think of two possible reasons to remove the eggs. First, to attempt to determine at what point the fetal development stopped. Was it the day they were exposed to the cold for 4-5 hours, or was it later?

The second reason would be to optimize the chances for another clutch, whether this season or next. We might be able to get the station's cooperation in removing the eggs, but we don't know if it's worth the effort, for any reason. We'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Bob

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"Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one" –– A. J. Liebling

I just got this response from John Blakeman. I added emphasis to what I think is the biggest problem. Even if we were successful in getting approval, by the time we did, the eggs would probably be too decayed to analyze:

Bob,
 
Good thoughts regarding egg removal, but here are my perspectives on the matter.
 
Yes, if the eggs were removed an egg expert could dissect them and come up with a probable date of death. But this presents four  problems. First, you've got to get the eggs out of the nest. That means you've got fto find somebody to climb up there and do the job. That, alone, may not be easy.
 
Secondly, anyone climbing up there will have to abide by all Oklahoma and OSHA work rules. Climbing up a tower like that, even if it has internal steps or ladders, will entail some detailed adherence to strict tower safety rules. Because of those, the tower owner may just nix the entire operation, understandably.
 
Thirdly, one can't extract hawk eggs from nests just because it's a good idea or good understandings might derive from the action. There will have to be state and federal permits to allow this, and it wouldn't surprise me to find those to be denied, given the common status of the red-tail, on the presumption that nothing useful could be learned from the eggs' extraction and dissection.
 
Fourth is the problem of finding someone with sufficient experience in egg dissection. Surely there are some professors at any of the Oklahoma universities who could do this. But if they would wish to do the dissections would need to be first affirmed.
 
Lastly, there is no biological imperative to remove the eggs. At this late date it's almost impossible for the pair to re-clutch, to lay another set, especially given the apparently reduced food situation this year. Red-tails very seldom lay a new set of eggs under any circumstances. And this situation is not at all favorable.
 
So, if the eggs are allowed to remain dead in the nest, will this have any untoward outcomes for breeding next season? None whatsoever. This happens all the time, with, say, about one fourth of red--tail nests having unhatched eggs each year. The birds are programmed to return to the nest site next year and almost surely they will do so. The dead eggs will eventually rot and disappear.
 
Consequently, I think it best to simply write off this year's breeding at the nest and hope for better things next season. This failure is not so infrequent, even with old, experienced red-tail pairs. It's part of the nature of the species.
 
--John Blakeman
 
 

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"Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one" –– A. J. Liebling

Well done, bob. It's been a full, well organized case you've presented to Mr. Blakeman over the past days, and his responses have been erudite and succinct. Many thanks to the both of you!

Thanks Bob! If you happen to communicate with him again, ask him what happens if by some chance the eggs remain intact until next year?  Would that deter normal nesting? Lets hope the starlings get them!  :)

5:15 pm   I went by the tower on my way home.  Kay was sitting on a pole by the camera and Jay was on the goldenrod.  Both were preening, and looking around at maybe a few prey items.  If any decent photos, I will post them later.
It was great to see them in close proximity.  And evidently claiming the tower and neighborhood kingdom still as theirs.

Hi everyone. I was wondering where you all went!

I hate I missed Kay and Jay, but you all did such a great job with pictures and documentation I don't feel like I missed a thing. I am so glad to see them content and cropped up. It did grab my heart, too, looking at Jay over the eggs. It always lightens our spirit to see either of them.

My first thought when I saw Kay had shown up was she was looking for Jay and wanted to make sure he had not disobeyed her orders to stay out of the nest.

Bob, thanks for the information from Blakeman. That was so informative.

Talk to you all soon.

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The human spirit needs places where nature has not been rearranged by the hand of man. ~Author Unknown

Catgirl, gunit thank you so much for the ‘on the ground, in the sky’ reports! Catgirl, your pics are awesome and uplifting. Thank you Bob for communicating with John Blackman, and passing that info on to us. Also thanks for your countless hours in the chat room answering any and all questions about these precious, special hawks.

When I saw the final two posts on The Big Sit from mamafrog and observer (especially that pic! Oh my Gosh!), I had tears in my eyes, it was so moving. Thank goodness these stars haven’t left our lives!

I’m still working on summarizing the observations for the past two weeks. Turns out it’s going to take a wee bit longer than I thought as you all did an amazing job documenting Jay and Kay’s actions. Next year, when our stars return for an encore we’ll be able to answer questions like “did Kay do that last year” or “did Jay do that”. Thank you Bob (again) and sallyls for giving me guidance on how to approach this labor of love.

B’ville, I’m still seeing hawks almost daily, but they are so high up and far enough away that I’m not sure what type they are, but I’ll keep looking and let you know!

Again, thanks to all my new ‘imaginary friends’ in cyberspace for welcoming me into your friendly community. Sorry this is so long!

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live well --- laugh often --- love much

I hope you all don't mind, I went back  and put the name of the new thread on the end of the old one so people know to look here!  Don't want to loose anyone!

Take your time Camfan-glad you are taking it on!  Yoeman's task.

Bobdmac, thank you for taking the time to find out about our Kay and Jay.  In fact I feel better about the whole situation.  They'll be back.  And let's hope the food supply is in abundance and the weather cooperates a whole lot more than it has this year.  A toast to next season then!

I was in the area again around 7:30 pm, so stopped to watch for awhile.  Kay and Jay were still perched on the tower in the same exact positions I left them in at 5:15 pm.  Kay flew off to the southwest at 7:50.  Jay was still there at 8 pm as I went into grocery, but was gone when I left at 8:15.  Here's a couple of photos - one of Kay at 5:15 and then a couple from sunset.  I'll try to post a few more on my flickr site tomorrow - www.flickr.com/photos/cheryls_camera

 

Here's a video of Kay's visit at approximately 2:00 PM this afternoon, 4/7.

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"Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one" –– A. J. Liebling

Catgirl, I just can't get enough of those photos. I love the long shot of the tower, where you can see kay on one rod and Jay on the other. And on the smaller photo, is that a small bird right in front of the dish that's captured our hawk's attention?

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"Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one" –– A. J. Liebling